Shortly after finishing college, Annie’s and her husband found out they were pregnant with their first son and they began to search high and low for part-time work that she could do around her husband’s schedule. Long story short, her husband received an amazing job offer that moved them from Small Town, Kansas to the Mile High City, which is when she began doing marketing for small non-profits from her kitchen table. While the work was enjoyable, she wanted to try her hand at a more creative field, which is when she began writing daily for a popular website.
The two things she instantly learned from working freelance were:
1.) The work was fun and something she could do around her son’s schedule.
2.) She was making the same amount of money working a few hours a day from home that she would have been making as a full-time reporter.
Since beginning her journey in the world of freelance 2 1/2 years ago, she has had so many friends and family members (mostly moms!) come to her and ask for advice on how to make extra money while staying home with their babies, which is inspired her to create Side Hustle Mom.
Katie: 00:01 Hi everyone. Thank you for tuning into the Hustlenomics Podcast. I’m your host, Katie, and today I am so excited to be talking with Annie Sandmeier. She is the founder of Side-Hustle Mom. So Annie, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Annie: 00:13 Well, thank you so much for having me, Katie. It’s an honor. I love your show. So thank you, ma’am.
Katie: 00:17 Oh, I appreciate that. So I would love it if you don’t mind telling the listeners a little bit more about yourself. So, where did you grow up?
Annie: 00:24 I actually grew up here in Colorado, and that’s where we’re living now. I have, yeah, husband, two kids. I’m a stay at home, mom. Work from home mom. Actually, I went to school in Hays, Kansas, and my background is actually in broadcast journalism. So that was where I went, and I guess I got my degree and started off my professional life doing that. And when I guess we had my son, it was like 2013, and then a week after he was born, my husband got a job offer back here in Colorado. So we moved before he was even a month old. It was very quick, a very crazy time. And so I never got back into broadcasting after that because it was so important for me to be able to stay home with him. But at the same time I knew, I guess I had a blog at that time, so I was doing that. I was kind of an outlet for me, but I knew I wanted to do something a little more. Also, I enjoy making money and contributing financially. So that was kind of, I guess what led me into what I’m doing now and into the world of just work from home opportunities and every like just everything that comes with that.
Katie: 01:41 Right, right. So when you say broadcast journalism, were you on TV or on the radio?
Annie: 01:46 I was on TV and radio, actually. Both. I did a lot. Yeah, I did a lot at our, our new station on campus. And then after school, I was working at the local TV station there. And then actually I got laid off when I was six months pregnant. They cut my position, and then I got into actually Catholic media. I’m Catholic, so I was doing a lot of radio and production on that side of things after school.
Katie: 02:12 Very cool. Very cool. So my sister and I are journalists. She’s a broadcast journalism reporter, and I’m a writer, so that’s a small world. But yeah, that’s a, it’s a fun, fun field to be in. I have to say, I could not do what she does big on TV every day, but I’m always impressed.
Annie: 02:29 No, I know it well. It’s, it’s very high stress and just a breakneck pace and it, I think it does take a really special person to do that too. Like you’ve just gotta be, go, go, go all the time. And no two days are alike, so yeah. That’s, that’s cool to hear about your sister.
Katie: 02:44 Yeah, definitely. So you mentioned your blog so that just started out as something fun you were doing. You weren’t really trying to make money with it at first.
Annie: 02:51 No, not originally. And I still use that blog to kind of keep our family up to date. Extended family, excuse me, with what’s going on with us. But what I was originally using it for was I guess after my husband, and I got engaged, I was never a huge cook. And so I was like, you know what, I’m going to start kind of expanding my repertoire of recipes and whatnot. I’m just going to record it. So the blog was called Annie, one can cook. Haha. And I did, I talked about recipes and then kind of wedding planning and stuff like that too. And that was when I discovered Google ads. This was back at the beginning of 2012. And then Pinterest also, which is their algorithm has changed so much since then. But just I guess like I saw how, you know, you can drive traffic to your blog and make money through avenues like that. So that was my introduction to the world of blogging.
Katie: 03:46 Well, that’s so interesting. Well, I know I have a lot of listeners who are bloggers and who are just racking their brains trying to figure out what is the best way to start monetizing this. So you started out with Google ads, right? I started with Google ads.
Annie: 03:59 Actually, and it wasn’t until recently I started dipping my toe in the world of affiliate marketing. Well, not, not affiliate marketing, but affiliates on your website like Amazon affiliates and just different businesses like that. So that more so than Google ads for sure as a good way to make money or media vine, I believe it is. I haven’t, and I need to get on that. But ad networks like that as well are a really good way to go if you have the audience.
Katie: 04:31 Okay, interesting. So for somebody listening who maybe just does not know anything about Google ads other than just the word Google ads planning, like how that works on your blog and how it’s connected and all that stuff.
Annie: 04:43 Oh, absolutely. So it’s kind of weird how it works cause I’ve gotten some messages before where they’re like, Oh my gosh, on your website. I saw an ad for like men’s underwear. Why is that on your website? So basically, Google puts, you know, you can say what size ads and you know what not, you have you are saying that but they’ll put ads on your website. It’s targeted to what I guess your visitor, your audience has looked for in the past, which is really smart because they have a better chance of clicking it that way, and you have a better chance of making money. But yeah, so basically I didn’t want to tell her that, you know, write her back and be like, well, you know, somebody who’s looking at men’s underwear, I’m not the one that put that up there. But yeah, they, they put ads on your site, and then you get a very, very small amount for however many, I guess when they just look at it or when somebody just passes by it when they’re scrolling.
Annie: 05:37 But then if you click, I know it’s a, it’s still not huge, but it’s a much bigger number. So I’m then just scrolling past it. So kind of an easy way to make money. You’re not going to make a ton off the bat. And I think last I checked, you have to have a website for I think like six months. It to not be that way when I first signed up in 2012, but you do have to be a little more established before you can sign up. I know that’s just with Google ads I, there’s media.net who I think is the parent company for like being or beings, their parent company I should say. And then maybe a vine and all those sites as well. But they all work basically the same way. Right, right. And affiliate is like a little bit different. People have actually to purchase through the ad, correct?
Annie: 06:22 Correct, yes. So you could be advertising, you know, go back to the Amazon if you, you know, really love a product or a book or what have you, and somebody clicks on your link that you have in your blog post or on social media and purchases through that, you can get up to 10% of that purchase. It just depends on the product. And then there’s also a 30-day cookie, which is great because then you get a certain kickback from, well basically everything they purchase with 30 days. So it can add up to a lot, especially if you have a bigger audience. Well, that’s fantastic. Well, I’d love to kind of go back a little bit and talk about what was the turning point from when you kind of had this blog, and it was just more for fun and for yourself that you wanted to start growing it and expanding it into what it is today.
Annie: 07:08 So with side hustle mom, the reason I started it was actually, well, I’ll kind of go back a little bit to where I left off with our stories. So we moved back to Denver, and you know, I really wanted to stay home with our son. I was trying to figure out what I could be doing from home in addition to blogging that could be bringing in some money. And so what I ended up doing was kind of the more social media managing side of things. And so I reached out actually to my hometown museum. So I got my start because they didn’t have much of an online presence and they’re a really great museum, but people don’t know about it. You know, they have some signs along ice 70, but you know, people rely on Google and TripAdvisor and Yelp for those kinds of things.
Annie: 07:57 So that’s how I got my start in the world of working from home. And so, you know, I was making $10 an hour, and I was working maybe 20 hours a week. So it wasn’t a whole lot, but it just opened my eyes to all the jobs that there are out there, and you just can get creative with it. Cause I got really creative with that when like we started a Facebook page, you know, got the website, totally revamped. My husband helped me with that and just adding stuff to that every day. And so I was able to make quite a few hours for myself just doing that sort of thing as well. But after that, so I was working on that. And then I’ve always been a writer. I’ve always really loved writing, which kind of sounds like for you too as well, Katie. But I was trying to find more of a way to incorporate that.
Annie: 08:47 And you know, I’m making a living as well. So I actually, I started working for this small startup that’s actually today, and you probably heard of, I normally don’t name it cause I’ve gotten out of through the years, just some weird Facebook messages from people. So I try to kind of keep that separate. But I was making actually more doing that part-time and I still write for this company, but I was making more money, you know, two to three hours a day working than I was as a reporter working full time. So I was like, Whoa. Like there really is something to [inaudible], and you know, I’m able to work around my baby’s schedule, and we travel a lot, you know, I can work around that as well. So once I started doing that, and I’ve been doing that for almost four and a half years now, working for this website and I write every day.
Annie: 09:38 And just through the years, I’ve had a lot of friends and family ask me for tips on how they can be making money from home as well. So, you know, just I was answering everyone individually, but then I started thinking, you know, why don’t I blog about this and you know, I can kind of experiment in different ways. For example, selling on Amazon and selling on eBay and whatnot and just kind of document my journey. And so that’s how Side Hustle Mom began, and it’s, I don’t, it’s kind of taken on away with them its own. So I don’t do as much, you know, experimenting and writing about it as I used to. And I guess, you know, we could talk about more of that in a second, but yeah, I guess that’s just, that was kind of the birth of side hustle mom.
Annie: 10:21 And that’s awesome. So you had people coming to you asking like, how are you doing this? Like how did you find that first writing job in the first place? That has been so great for you? Craigslist, if you can believe that. And that is Craigslist. And there are so many scam jobs out there and I actually really, really recommend checking Craigslist because any more, you know, you still will get the occasional scam, but posters have to pay to post their job. I know here in Denver it’s like $50 a post, so that’s going to weed out a lot of scams because you know, they’re trying to take your money, they don’t want to put money into taking, you know, and so but yeah, that’s actually how I found it. I really recommend that to people who are looking for writing jobs. There’s a lot of good sites out there, but if you get on your local Craigslist page and go to jobs and then I think the last thing is like writing slash editing, the last option on there, you can find some really good stuff, and there are some that you know, you have to be an office for, but a lot of it is at home.
Annie: 11:23, Okay. And do you have any tips to kind of weed out some of those scammers that you’ve noticed as a trend? Like I said on Craigslist, you don’t have to worry about it as much. But just a good rule of thumb is if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Definitely, if they’re super vague too, I don’t, I wouldn’t respond to something like that. Like if they’re not giving a company name or a website or they don’t have like a legitimate at, you know, this writing job.com email address, I just wouldn’t even to it. So I think just really do your homework and just trust your gut instinct on that because a lot of time it is going to be right. Good deal.
Katie: 12:02 Definitely some good tips. So when you were transferring from working as a reporter, and you know you were a new mom and you, you’re getting into this kind of like new stage in your life, what were some of the biggest changes that you had to adapt to and what were some tools or tricks that you use to kind of get this side hustle going?
Annie: 12:19 I think a lot of it. I’m not a very scheduled person. I think if you’re scheduled, and you know you have a planner and everything and just have a better idea of how the day’s going to go, I think that helps a lot. But for me, you know, it’s waking up early and just trying to get everything accomplished before my kids get up when I can or staying up late and doing it around them. That has been key in balancing the whole thing. There are days when obviously, that’s not going to work. I hate sending my kids in front of the TV if I don’t have to. But you know, there are some of those days, so I think it’s kind of a person by person basis how you want to do that. But you know, you just have to have a good sense of humor about it. Two things will get done, but every day’s going to be different. So just being flexible.
Katie: 13:05 And this is kind of like on the same vein as what you’re talking about, the Craigslist jobs and all the job boards that it can be easy to be pulled into some scams and some not so above board things. And I’ve wanted to ask you personally about this topic is the MLMs, and I’ve had experience with people getting pulled into certain things that are not so above board as I said. Still, I always like to hear people’s opinions on it because there have been some great stories too. So, so what’s your take on those?
Annie: 13:32 So how long is your show? I could do a whole thing on this. I’m not a fan of MLMs. I’ve gotten some, you know, not so nice comments about that in the past. But I’ve also had a lot of people come forward and say, no, I completely agree. Here’s my story. Here’s the reason I don’t like them. 73% of people who join are either going to lose their money or just break even. Like you hear all these success stories about it, and you know, I know people, some people have had success with it, and that is amazing because you know there is money to be made, I guess in some aspects of it. But you know, when you’re a single mom, and you don’t have the money to spend in the first place, and you know you have to pay $100 for a starter kit or whatever, just to be a presenter and then you have to have inventory on you, you know, you have to spend another $300 on that, and you have to pay a certain fee per month, or you have to be selling a certain amount.
Annie: 14:35 Like it’s a lot. It’s stressful. It’s, it’s just a lot. And I don’t think people think about that going in a lot of times too. I actually here, I have this pulled up, and this is on my website as well, but the federal trade commission actually that some popular companies even have a 99.6% loss rate. You know, and a couple of those were like Amway, our bond Nu skin, looking at these bigger ones that are on there. But you know, we go into it thinking, cause we hear all these success stories, you know, they’re making $600,000 a year, or they’re making five digits a month selling this. But I think that’s the exception and not the rule, but they don’t want you to know that I had either, you know, companies want you to join, and they want you to be recruiting, and they want you to be buying their products, but it’s just not a sustainable thing.
Annie: 15:27 There’s this Huff post article as just actually a couple of days ago and I’m going to look up what that’s called real quick, but it was really interesting to read and to hear, you know, some people that didn’t have a good experience with it. This one woman, I think she was a beach body coach, and she was working, she was saying 60 to 80 hours a week, and on her best year she made $600 because she was putting so much money into, you know, and that’s probably a little extreme too cause she was spending thousands of dollars a year on ads and whatnot. But it’s not sustainable. You can be making money. This is, this is me talking, I know this isn’t a popular opinion, but you know, you could be making some money with it off the get-go. But after a while, I think there’s a novelty to it at the beginning.
Annie: 16:13 You know, your friends and family are going to want to support you and buy products, but your network is going to dry out after a while. It’s just what I’ve seen anyway. So I think it was just, you know, a matter of signing up, you know, like $10 to sign up. You don’t have to have any inventory on you. You know, it’s purely referrals. You know, that’s not bad. But if you have to have a certain amount, you have to be spending or buying yourself and paying fees on top of it to be a presenter, you know, whatever, whatever they call it in the company. There are better ways of making money from home. And I guess that’s what I’m trying to stress. So side hustle mom.
Katie: 16:53 Yeah, definitely. And I’m not sure if you’ve heard of this podcast, but since you are a journalist as well, you might find this interesting. It’s called the dream. Yes. Okay. So I want you said that that really opened my eyes and like you said, there are people who have strong opinions on both sides and there are some people who are just like, I just don’t care as long as they don’t try to sell me anything. Amen. Yeah. But that podcast really opened my eyes to the background of it, which I had no idea how far back the history of it was. No. And I didn’t either.
Annie: 17:26 You know, but it was those modest first days of, you know, Tupperware parties and Avon ladies and stuff like that and where it’s at now. And just how much that landscape has changed over the years, especially with social media and the internet. But no, I, I agree entirely with you that if you haven’t listened to that podcast, I mean it’s, it’s a must cause I can’t remember the makeup, her producer, whoever, you know, she was recording with was in, but it’s just, it’s crazy the amount of just pressure there is, and you know, they’re telling her, Oh, you need to be hosting these parties, and you need to buy $100 worth of wine and $500 worth of makeup to do free Maaco, and it’s just, and you don’t think about that going into it either. Everything that, yeah, just goes into it.
Katie: 18:12 And I mean, I can’t tell you, I have gotten over 73 friend requests in the past three days.
Annie: 18:19 You are kidding me.
Katie: 18:21 No. And that is just from adding one person who I found out was in an MLM and then I got a wooden follow people friending me and messaging me out of the blue saying, you know, Hey, gorgeous. Would you like to be up?
Annie: 18:33, Yep. Yep. Yep. No. And that’s if you do sell MLM, like I’m not trying to rain on, yeah, not at all. Like if you found success in it, that’s amazing. But also, there’s a good way to do it in a not great way to do it. Like in what you just said is the not great way to do it, you know, cold messaging. And cause I’ve gotten some of those too, like after having my youngest, Gabe, I still have a couple of pounds to go and he’s two and a half. Like I really should be getting on the ball with that. But you know, to get back to my pre-baby weight. But you know, just having perfect strangers reach out to just based on hashtags and they’re like, Oh well, you know, this supplement will help you lose that baby weight. And I didn’t even mention the extra baby weight. And it’s like, well, Oh I am. So it was that noticeable. But you know, it’s, it’s stuff like that too. And it can be predatory. And I don’t know if they mean to be, and I doubt they do. You know, they’re trying to make a sale, and you know, I’m sure a lot of them are trying to support themselves and their families, which I respect. But yeah, there’s, there’s a good way in a bad way to do that as well.
Katie: 19:40 Absolutely. And it’s just so interesting thinking about like, you know, I, when I first got out of grad school, I started working for somebody who was significantly older than me and obviously generationally we were very different and how we approached business, and he was all about the cold calling, like all about calling and cold emailing. And I was like trying to explain, people don’t do that anymore, nor do they want.
Annie: 20:05 Correct. That’s exactly right. It’s not as big a thing, and it’s, it’s just annoying anymore too. But I know back then it was different. When I was growing up, my parents sold Amway, which is, I think, I mentioned as on that 99.6% list, you know, of loss rate less. But they were in that for ten years. And you know, I think they were telling them, and this was back in the 90s, but they were being told yeah, to cold call and just sell, sell, sell to your friends, which I know is, you know, the big thing today still, you know, post as much as he can on social media and sell, sell, sell. But no, it’s definitely changed. So that’s a good point with yeah, the cold calling and whatnot.
Katie: 20:42, Yeah. And you’ve got a job board on your website. So I’d have some mom that has tons of great opportunities. Are most of them writer positions or w w the landscape there.
Annie: 20:52 So we have a job board, and that’s a little bit of everything. It’s actually hosted by ZipRecruiter. I don’t know if you’re a big Dave Ramsey fan, but like he loves ZipRecruiter. So that’s why I got in with them. Cause yeah, just anything Dave Ramsey says goes in my mind, he’s a very smart man. But oh, and he also says to stay away from MLMs just for the record. But yes. So it’s hosted through zip recruiter, and it’s writing jobs, customer service work from home. Customer service, marketing, sales, all kinds of different stuff that, you know, you may not have thought of either. That you could be doing from home and around your kids a schedule, and then in addition to the job board, we also have this weekend jobs that I do every week. And so I basically just go out on the internet, and I guess I look at different work from home jobs, verify that they’re legitimate.
Annie: 21:43 And so that goes out. Usually, I try to have it up by Sunday morning. So yesterday’s I think I went up Saturday night. But so we have that as well. So that’s another way to find a different job. They are our customer service marketing copywriter, job conference, sponsorship content specialists. So there’s a bunch of different ways, you know, salary and hourly jobs that, yeah, you can find on our site. You can find them online too. But yeah, just there are so many different ways that you can be making money from home, which is, I don’t think people realize.
Katie: 22:15 Yeah, no, I mean, it’s crazy. It’s really interesting for me to talk to, you know, women all different stages and ages and you know, different journeys because it’s so interesting to hear the transition from most people working in a corporate job in an office. And now I feel like more and more everyone’s working from home.
Annie: 22:32 See? Isn’t that cool? Yeah. And it’s amazing how much it shifted. And then are you, not to like prior anything, but are you working from home as well?
Katie: 22:41 Yeah, so I started my business about a year and a half, two years ago worked full time and then moved to part-time and then just went full time in my business. That’s what I’ve been doing. And I’d love to kind of hear about how, you know, like working from home, as I’ve mentioned, is a big transition. It’s, you know, you’re in an office space, you don’t have supplies, you don’t have down a hall that you can chat with. So like how have you kind of set up a space for yourself or a structure for yourself to where you can kind of get stuff done and feel like you’re productive and you’re home.
Annie: 23:10 So it goes back to the flexibility thing for sure. Ideally, I love it. My husband works, I guess it’s Wednesday through Saturday from like 6:00 AM to 4:00 PM he’s a network engineer and manages the division at his work. But you know, when he’s home, like today and Tuesday, it’s great just to be able to go to Starbucks or you know, wherever. Just a coffee shop and just work for five hours straight. So, you know, that’s my ideal. But most days, you know, we have a home office, but I normally don’t even work from there. I’ll get up in the morning, and I’ll have my coffee, I’ll just go sit on the couch with a Mac book and just try to get as much accomplished as I can before the kids get up. Or you know, late at night too that there are, some days I’m working, you know, the boys want to play out back. I’ll take the laptop out back, and you know, try to get stuff done, then I’ll work downstairs all way. You know, it just it, it depends on the day. So there’s, I recommend structure but you know, especially if you don’t have kids, it’s good to have more of a routine. But I just don’t have a whole lot of structures. Definitely a balancing act. So most days, yeah, I just tried to get up early and just sit on the couch and get all my stuff done before the kids get up, I guess.
Katie: 24:24 Yeah, that totally makes sense. You know, that’s somebody who gets to set their own schedule. It can be really easy to kind of just like work all the time, which I mean, not always possible when you have kids, but do you, have you had to set any boundaries with yourself? Like not working on the weekends or not working after certain times?
Annie: 24:40 Absolutely. Because you know, the whole point of being a stay at home mom for me is to be with my kids. So I try to make, you know, some days it just doesn’t happen cause there’s deadlines and whatnot. So I do need to work, you know, while they’re running through the sprinkler, watching Netflix, whatever. I definitely make a conscious effort to do stuff around their schedules. I think that is so important when you do work from home because like you said, you know, you, you’re in your office already, and you know, your mind’s going a million miles per hour, and you know, you’re thinking of all the stuff you can be doing so that it’s important to have a life outside your work from home job as well. So you just, I think you just have to be conscious about it and yeah, maybe set a schedule if you can, you know, a nine to five thing just on weekdays. Cause in the end, that’s going to help your sanity. Like you have to get out, you have to have your hobbies, and you know, your home is still your home. So in that sense, I guess asking you, Katie, like do you have a designated workspace where you know, you do all your work there, and then the rest of your home is like your home, so you can separate the two. Like does that help you?
Katie: 25:47 Kind of. So I’m like half and half at the moment. I have a tendency to have a workaholic kind of personality. But that, that is because I love what I do so it doesn’t really feel like work. It kind of feels like I’m just doing what I would like to do anyway. But I do have an office, and I like to sometimes work in the living room just depending on how my back’s feeling after sitting in my office chair, my fiance has said like, no computer in the bedroom anymore. Like you can’t work there. That’s like, so there’s like off-limits spaces. But he’s been really good about kind of reminding me that I need to have boundaries, you know, not working on the weekend, but it’s always a work in progress for me.
Annie: 26:29 Yes ma’am. No, I hear you. Yes. Well, that’s good, though. So you’ve kind of got that figured out too.
Katie: 26:36, Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’m getting them where I’m the kind of person where I get really excited about projects, and I’m like, Oh my gosh, I have to do it now. Yes, I’m the same way.
Annie: 26:44 So yeah, no that, that gets difficult, especially when the kids are up and yeah, I think of all the stuff. Yeah, I wouldn’t be doing so now I, I completely get that. So yeah, I make little notes on my phone after they go to bed.
Katie: 26:57 Me too. Me too. And are there any like apps or tools or anything that you use on a daily basis that you could just not live without that might be useful for people listening?
Annie: 27:07 I am so old school like I said earlier, my husband’s the network engineer, so he’s a lot more into like apps and stuff like that. I just use notes on my phone. I actually, I will write articles for side hustle mom and other projects I’m working on, on my phone. Like if I’m laying down with the kids trying to get them down and you know, I’m super excited about something, and it’s on my mind, and I just want to get it out. I mean, yeah, I know that’s super unhelpful and really lame. But no, I mean just you have a note section on my phone is just constantly full and I’ll open my Gmail and just like open a new draft and I’ll write in that like different ideas. But I’m pretty old school when it comes to that sort of thing.
Katie: 27:49 Well, as a fellow writer, like one of my weaknesses is I type really fast, and I tend to make mistakes. So I use this thing called Grammarly. I don’t know.
Annie: 27:59, Okay. Yes, I do. I’m glad you said that because that actually is a really great, yeah, when I’m on the computer, I do use Grammarly. Yes. I’m glad you mentioned that.
Katie: 28:09 Completely made a three 60 improvement in my writing.
Annie: 28:13 It’s just incredible. And I have just even the free version. Are you doing the free version of it?
Katie: 28:20 Yeah, I do ghostwriting for a couple of high profile bloggers. So I really wanted to make sure that I’m not sending over content with mistakes, so I appreciate it.
Annie: 28:30 Hey, good call. Well, you know, I have an editor, so I guess she’s kind of my last offense with that, but just the free version. Even like what a difference it’s made, but no, and I’ve, so I’m interested yeah, to hear that about the, we, you know, when you pay for it too, that it’s that much better. But no, that is a really great tool to use, especially if you’re a writer. So I’m glad you mentioned that because yeah, I guess I was thinking more just stuff on, on my phone versus on the computer, outside of gutters.
Katie: 28:59 Are there any like podcasts that you’ve been listening to or books that you’ve read that you found that you really love, that you would recommend?
Annie: 29:05 Gosh, well, your podcast, of course. I really enjoy listening. Yes, I’m really enjoying listening to that. Other podcasts I listened to, I’m a huge Shalene Johnson fan. I’m not sure if you listen to any of her stuff, but I really, I did PIO for the eight weeks, and so she felt like an old friend by then. So I really enjoy her build your tribe, and I’ve gotten her to be a lot of really good information out of that, and tips hustled a freedom podcast is really good. She did it her way. Blogger genius, smart passive incomes, a huge one. There are just so many, you know, depending on what you want to do. Also, just so many good podcasts out there that give so many good tips. Yeah, definitely. I listen to probably four or five podcasts a week. It’s just amazing.
Annie: 29:51 It’s, I always think it’s funny cause I did a lot of like media research and grad school and looking at how like radio was so big in the 30s and forties and now it’s radio’s back, and it’s just so interesting how the format has kind of been cyclical. So yes, absolutely. And no, I didn’t really think of it that way, but that’s true. Yeah. With radio cause it basically is, it’s just a, and you’re getting it a different way. So, but yeah, I mean it’s just, I love podcasts. They just give such invaluable information. They’re so inspiring too. Like they give you ideas, you wouldn’t think of otherwise.
Katie: Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been so fun to chat with you. Well, I really appreciate it, Katie. Thank you.
